From: Daniel Hornburg (Hleinad_at_gmx.de)
Date: Thu Aug 19 2010 - 03:23:43 CDT

Hey Everybody,

Finally I know the software I am going to use and did some readings about
it. For those of you who are interested in creating 3D movies it might be
interesting to check the free demo Version of it (Stereoscopic Player 1.6.4,
http://3dtv.at/Downloads/Index_en.aspx).

After reading some of the manuals for this application the straightforward
approach would be to create a dual stream layout. Side-by-side and
over/under layouts are on my opinion harder to extract from vmd. An
interesting and short introduction is given here
(http://3dtv.at/Knowhow/StereoWmvSpec_en.aspx). A nice guide how to handle
compression is given here (http://3dtv.at/Knowhow/EncodingDivx_en.aspx)

Currently I am a little bit uncertain what exactly the difference in the
picture for the left and right eye is and how I can implement it easily into
the rendering procedure of vmd.

Based on the readings my approach will be:
Create perspective 1 (left eye) ---> render it with Tachyon and create movie
file
Create perspective 2 (right eye) ---> render it with Tachyon and create
movie file
Use the stereoscopic player with this two input files

Cheers,
Daniel

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu [mailto:owner-vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu] Im Auftrag von
Shore, Jay
Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. August 2010 20:35
An: Daniel Hornburg
Cc: vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu
Betreff: RE: vmd-l: VMD 3D movies rendering

If you were using a geowall set up (two projectors each with a polarizer),
couldn't you just make each frame of the movie contain the two images
side-by-side and then play the movie using a standard movie player,
quicktime etc.?

A geowall that I have used split the image in half, sending one through one
projector and the other half through the other projector.

I apologize if I missed something.
Jay

________________________________________
From: owner-vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu [owner-vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel
Hornburg [Hleinad_at_gmx.de]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:50 AM
To: 'John Stone'
Cc: 'Axel Kohlmeyer'; vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu
Subject: AW: vmd-l: VMD 3D movies rendering

Ok, now I understand the main problem :) Well, I will have a look on the
problem as soon as I get the projectors.
Thanks a lot so far!
Cheers,
Daniel

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: John Stone [mailto:johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. August 2010 16:40
An: Daniel Hornburg
Cc: 'Axel Kohlmeyer'; vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu
Betreff: Re: vmd-l: VMD 3D movies rendering

Hi,
  What I think you didn't grasp from my previous email is that none of the
different methods that I described can be played by freely available movie
player software. At present, only custom-written software can play such
movies, and so far as I know, nobody has made modifications to the commonly
used movie players to enable these capabilities yet. Also, of the various
methods I described, playing two independent movie streams is actually by
far the most technically challenging due to the need to drive two separate
decoders, and to maintain synchronization, frame counts, etc.
When you get access to the 3D projector then you can start looking at what
software is available to you, and you can feel free to contact us to ask
about rendering from VMD in whatever format your movie encoder/player
software will support.

Cheers,
  John Stone
  vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:43:35PM +0200, Daniel Hornburg wrote:
> Hi thanks for your suggestions!
>
> I have not yet access to the 3D projectors and the corresponding software.
> As far as I know the technology I am going to use will use 2
> projectors and shutter glasses. Therefore I think two separate video
> streams each for one projector will be the best solution. Because in
> the stereo view both perspectives are displayed correctly I was
> wondering whether one can easily first extract one and then the other
> perspective of the molecule. If that is not the case would it be
> sufficient to just turn the molecule for some degrees and that’s it? I
> am
not certain about it.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu [mailto:owner-vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu] Im
> Auftrag von John Stone
> Gesendet: Montag, 16. August 2010 18:20
> An: Axel Kohlmeyer
> Cc: Daniel Hornburg; vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> Betreff: Re: vmd-l: VMD 3D movies rendering
>
> Hi,
> The issue with making movies for 3D projectors is that there
> currently isn't a low-cost encoding mechanism for this type of media.
>
> There are a bunch of competing proprietary solutions, but nothing that
> you can reliably use with off-the-shelf software.
> I do occasional consulting for a business that develops various
> production tools for Hollywood, and one of the tools I helped develop
> previously was a 3D movie player that works with the standard digital
> files that the movie industry uses. All of the code I wrote was 100%
> custom because there still really aren't any widely-adopted standards
> other than for Blu-Ray. The most common free/low-cost methods are
currently:
> - encode 3D as two separate movie bitstreams
> - encode 3D as a single movie bitstream, using above-below image
> formatting
> - encode 3D as a single movie bitstream, using side-by-side image
> formatting
> - encode 3D as a single movie bitstream, using frame-sequential
> formatting
>
> All of these require special player software...
>
> The new Blu-Ray 3D format uses H.264/AVC with multiview video coding.
> So far as I know, there are currently no free or inexpensive
> MVC-capable movie encoders in existence. Most of these things
> currently cost >= $5,000 last I checked. At present, the only way to
> do 3D movies is to either use expensive commercial encoders and
> players, or roll-your-own with your own custom player.
>
> Cheers,
> John Stone
> vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
>
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 09:40:36AM -0400, Axel Kohlmeyer wrote:
> > hello daniel,
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Daniel Hornburg <Hleinad_at_gmx.de> wrote:
> > > Hello everybody!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am using vmd for visualization of trajectories. Since the ray
> > > tracing movies are quite nice and I have the opportunity to use a
> > > polarized 3D system I would like to produce high resolution movies
> > > suited for 3D visualization (real time is not an opportunity due
> > > to slow rendering of my system).
> > >
> > > However when I choose stereo views like side by side and start
> > > rendering I only get pictures of a single view.
> >
> > yes. that is how it works. the stereo display settings only affect
> > the OpenGL output drivers.
> >
> > > Does anyone of you have created movies for 3D projectors and may
> > > help
> me?
> >
> > i have been thinking about it and may give it a shot for a demo at
> > the
> > GTC'10 conference (if there is time). the question is not so much
> > about rendering (you can easily render the left and right eye images
> > separately), but about compression and playback. what kind of
> > encoding would you want to use and what player software would you
> > want
to use?
> > there are no widely accepted standards so you'd have to use some
> > kind of proprietary solution or implement one yourself.
> >
> > cheers,
> > axel.
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot!
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Axel Kohlmeyer akohlmey_at_gmail.com
> > http://sites.google.com/site/akohlmey/
> >
> > Institute for Computational Molecular Science Temple University,
> > Philadelphia PA, USA.
>
> --
> NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and Bioinformatics Beckman
> Institute for Advanced Science and Technology University of Illinois,
> 405
N.
> Mathews Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
> Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu Phone: 217-244-3349
> WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/ Fax: 217-244-6078
>

--
NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and Bioinformatics Beckman
Institute for Advanced Science and Technology University of Illinois, 405 N.
Mathews Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu                 Phone: 217-244-3349
  WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/      Fax: 217-244-6078