From: John Stone (johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu)
Date: Tue Aug 08 2006 - 11:26:07 CDT

Marc,
  The games haven't been as affected by some of these issues with Vista's
new design because most of them use full-screen display modes that don't
have much in the way of direct interactions with Aero, for example.
A year ago MS was only planning to provide OpenGL via DirectX emulation,
which was a lot slower than direct ICD drivers like we use currently.
The other initial problem with the early betas of Vista (from what I was told,
since I didn't try it personally) was that using an OpenGL application
basically caused Vista to shutdown Aero and revert to the old non-Aero
shell until the OpenGL app finished. Tons of people complained about
this and the latest note from the OpenGL BOF indicates this is indeed solved
now. The two issues mentioned in the BOF presentation regarding overlay
planes and stereo are less apt to get immediate attention like the other
issues did since stereo users are a much smaller community.
If enough people complain I expect MS will fix stereo, but we'll have to
wait and see. Initially it looks like stereo users will want to stay
clear of Vista until this gets resolved.

  John

On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 09:11:28AM +0200, Marc Baaden wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> not that I would want to defend windows in any way, but something seems
> strange here to me. Wasn't the game industry (and in particular games on
> Windows PCs) a major driving factor for graphics card development and
> subsequently availability of cheap stereo solutions (vs expensive CrystalEyes
> style hardware)?
> Where will all the windows gamers go when Vista comes out? Also graphics
> card vendors and vendors of stereo goggles might be quite unhappy about this.
> Maybe it's not the final word yet..
>
> ..however I can only second the suggestion to move to linux or Mac OSX for
> scientific visualisation. There are some pro's and con's for both but that's
> another topic.
>
> Marc
>
> >>> John Stone said:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> Very good points Warren. Microsoft has become increasingly
> >> OpenGL-unfriendly recently and only resolved the problems with
> >> OpenGL and the Windows Vista Aero user interface after the graphics
> >> community went into an uproar. I wanted to post this information
> >> immediately since stereo is important to a lot of people using VMD and othe
> r
> >> packages like PyMol, and this basically says that Vista will
> >> useless for people that want stereo whenever it is finally released.
> >> I'm guessing this is going to become an FAQ for most molecular
> >> graphics packages as unsuspecting users are bewildered to discover
> >> that their Vista installs are actually a feature downgrade! :)
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 08:06:10PM -0700, Warren DeLano wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > The suggestion in the powerpoint presentation
> >> > > from the meeting is that people that want stereo support should
> >> > > contact Microsoft.
> >> >
> >> > Or you could simply switch your stereo 3D visualization over to Mac OS
> >> > X.
> >> >
> >> > Seriously folks -- Apple is aggressively wooing the scientific,
> >> > open-standards, and open-source communities whereas Microsoft is holding
> >> > up "the middle finger."
> >> >
> >> > As of today, you can buy a 2.66 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon-based "Mac Pro"
> >> > that'll run Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP for just $2499* USD.
> >> >
> >> > *Note however that for stereo 3D, you must add $1,650 for a
> >> > stereo-capable Quadro FX 4500, since there is no "low end" stereo 3D
> >> > option on the Mac yet.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Warren
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: owner-vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu [mailto:owner-vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu] On Behalf
> >> > Of John Stone
> >> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:19 AM
> >> > To: vmd-l_at_ks.uiuc.edu; vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> >> > Subject: vmd-l: No stereo display support in Windows Vista...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> > An important upshot of the OpenGL birds of feather meeting
> >> > at Siggraph 2006 last week is that Windows Vista will
> >> > apparently NOT support stereoscopic display when it is
> >> > initially released. The suggestion in the powerpoint presentation
> >> > from the meeting is that people that want stereo support should
> >> > contact Microft. See the commentary in the 'Two things to watch out
> >> > for'
> >> > section of the "NVIDIA: OpenGL on Vista" presentation posted here:
> >> > http://www.khronos.org/developers/library/siggraph2006/OpenGL_BOF/
> >> >
> >> > Please pass this along to all of your friends that want stereo support
> >> > on
> >> > future versions of Microsoft Windows.
> >> >
> >> > John Stone
> >> > vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and Bioinformatics
> >> > Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
> >> > University of Illinois, 405 N. Mathews Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
> >> > Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu Phone: 217-244-3349
> >> > WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/ Fax: 217-244-6078
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and Bioinformatics
> >> Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
> >> University of Illinois, 405 N. Mathews Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
> >> Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu Phone: 217-244-3349
> >> WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/ Fax: 217-244-6078
> >>
>
> Marc Baaden
>
> --
> Dr. Marc Baaden - Institut de Biologie Physico-Chimique, Paris
> mailto:baaden_at_smplinux.de - http://www.baaden.ibpc.fr
> FAX: +33 15841 5026 - Tel: +33 15841 5176 ou +33 609 843217
>

-- 
NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and Bioinformatics
Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
University of Illinois, 405 N. Mathews Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu                 Phone: 217-244-3349
  WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/      Fax: 217-244-6078