VMD-L Mailing List

From: John Stone (johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu)
Date: Mon Jun 08 2009 - 16:15:15 CDT

Hi,
  Can you try the newer NVIDIA drivers or an older version?
We see now that two people have trouble with the 180.51 version,
but what about the latest 185.18.14 driver, or the CUDA 180.18.08
drivers?

If it happens with the 180.18.08 driver, then I may be able
to file bugs on this with NVIDIA since this behavior doesn't occur for
us with that driver on different OS revs and GPU combinations.

Cheers,
  John Stone
  vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu

On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 02:52:35PM +0200, Marius Retegan wrote:
> I can reproduce this bug on a Fedora 11 machine.
>
> Kernel: 2.6.29.4-167.fc11.x86_64
> nVidia driver version: 180.51
> > lspci | grep nVidia
> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV43GL [Quadro FX 550]
> (rev a2)
>
> VMD works in debug mode.
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Axel Kohlmeyer
> <akohlmey_at_cmm.chem.upenn.edu>wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2009-06-05 at 11:04 -0500, John Stone wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > From what you're saying, it sounds like you get correct behavior
> > > with the "nv" driver, but not with the NVIDIA provided display driver,
> > > is that correct? If the "nv" driver works (but would obviously be
> > > very slow and low on features), then that does seem to indicate that
> > > this is an OpenGL driver issue. Can you try using a newer or older
> > > version of the NVIDIA driver available from the nvidia web site
> > > and see if the problem goes away:
> > > http://www.nvidia.com/
> >
> > FWIW, nvidia just today released a new driver. version 185.18.14
> >
> > cheers,
> > axel.
> >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > John Stone
> > > vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 05:56:04PM +0200, lucie delemotte wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > >i would thus suspect that there is some problem or incompatibility
> > > > >with your OpenGL library relative to your Xserver. since you have
> > > > >a very new distribution, and it seems to contain somewhat experimental
> > > > >software (you mentioned Tk8.6, which is not even officially released),
> > > > >i would suggest you try a few more steps to narrow down the possible
> > > > >causes. one option to try would be to disable some advanced OpenGL
> > > > >features via using: env VMDSIMPLEGRAPHICS=1 vmd -e state.vmd
> > > > >and see if that makes a difference.
> > > >
> > > > It makes no difference. Regrding the tk/tcl version, this is the only
> > > > version available on this distribution
> > (tcl-8.6-0.b1.1mdv2009.1.i586.rpm and
> > > > tk-8.6-0.b1.2mdv2009.1.i586.rpm)
> > > >
> > > > >the second, more drastic option would be to uninstall the nvidia
> > > > >driver and try the (limited functionality) "nv" driver that ships
> > > > >with the distribution instead.
> > > > >i would also make sure that you have all patches and updates
> > installed.
> > > > >new distributions, particularly those that are willing to ship beta
> > > > >software, tend to have a lot of updates in the first few months.
> > > >
> > > > The OS is newly installed and all updates are done but it does not
> > change
> > > > anything. Changing the graphical to "nv" in the xorg file permits the
> > state
> > > > file to load but as it does not activate GL functions (or other stuff
> > like
> > > > that), using vmd in this configuration is painful. I also tried to use
> > the
> > > > version given by the mandriva distribution and gives the same behavior
> > as
> > > > with the drivers taken from the nivdia website.
> > > >
> > > > >Do you have Compiz or other
> > > > >desktop special effects features enabled on this machine?
> > > >
> > > > Compiz is deactivated for the moment but if activated, it changes
> > nothing
> > > > regarding vmd.
> > > > Besides, compiz works well when activated, and glxgears also gives good
> > fps.
> > > >
> > > > >If all else fails,
> > > > >trying alternative non-vendor drivers may be worthwhile to narrow down
> > the
> > > > >source of trouble.
> > > >
> > > > Can you be more specific on this information ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > > Lucie
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:05 PM, John Stone <johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > Yeah, I think Axel's suggestions here are probably on the mark.
> > > > > I've never encountered the problem you're describing with the
> > > > > NVIDIA's drivers however, so I'm somewhat surprised that you're
> > > > > having this problem on your particular combination of hardware
> > > > > and software. If changing the drivers affects the behavior, then
> > > > > we may need to file a bug to NVIDIA. Do you have Compiz or other
> > > > > desktop special effects features enabled on this machine? That's
> > > > > another thing that may be worth checking on in addition to what
> > > > > Axel already suggested. I would try and solve the problem while
> > > > > retaining the use of the NVIDIA-provided OpenGL drivers if possible,
> > > > > either by using an older driver version or by enabling/disabling
> > various
> > > > > options, since they will give the best performance. If all else
> > fails,
> > > > > trying alternative non-vendor drivers may be worthwhile to narrow
> > down the
> > > > > source of trouble.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > John Stone
> > > > > vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:16:06AM -0400, Axel Kohlmeyer wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 09:36 +0200, lucie delemotte wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > lucie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i tried your input as well on a variety of linux machines
> > > > > > (32-bit, 64-bit, "old" linux, "new" linux, nvidia, non-nvidia)
> > > > > > and it always worked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > After that, I get no vmd> prompt. The openGL window opens but
> > doesn't
> > > > > > > show anything and no main window appears. I then have to kill the
> > > > > > > process to quit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i would thus suspect that there is some problem or incompatibility
> > > > > > with your OpenGL library relative to your Xserver. since you have
> > > > > > a very new distribution, and it seems to contain somewhat
> > experimental
> > > > > > software (you mentioned Tk8.6, which is not even officially
> > released),
> > > > > > i would suggest you try a few more steps to narrow down the
> > possible
> > > > > > causes. one option to try would be to disable some advanced OpenGL
> > > > > > features via using: env VMDSIMPLEGRAPHICS=1 vmd -e state.vmd
> > > > > > and see if that makes a difference.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the second, more drastic option would be to uninstall the nvidia
> > > > > > driver and try the (limited functionality) "nv" driver that ships
> > > > > > with the distribution instead.
> > > > > > i would also make sure that you have all patches and updates
> > installed.
> > > > > > new distributions, particularly those that are willing to ship beta
> > > > > > software, tend to have a lot of updates in the first few months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > since it was working with -debug, it could be some sort of race
> > > > > > condition somewhere (debugging slows down execution).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also forgot to mention that every script I have works well in
> > the
> > > > > > > -dispdev text mode.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > which just confirms that this is an X-related problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > cheers,
> > > > > > axel.
> > > > > > > Cheers again,
> > > > > > > Lucie
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:01 PM, John Stone <johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lucie,
> > > > > > > After fixing an invalid filename for the .coor file (was
> > > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > in a directory
> > > > > > > "'/media/disk/LUCIE/ionchannels/kv1/kv1.5/kv1.5.26/"
> > > > > > > which obviously doesn't exist on my machine), the state
> > file
> > > > > > > you provided loads fine for me with both VMD 1.8.7 beta 5
> > and
> > > > > > > VMD 1.8.6.
> > > > > > > If you run VMD 1.8.7 beta 5 and load the saved state via
> > the
> > > > > > > command
> > > > > > > line -e flag, how far does it get? Can you mail me the
> > > > > > > output from
> > > > > > > that test? (no -debug)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > John Stone
> > > > > > > vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 06:42:38PM +0200, lucie delemotte
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > I uploaded the files to biocore (called state.tar.gz).
> > > > > > > > Thanks again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lucie
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 6:15 PM, John Stone
> > > > > > > <johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > Can you tar up the saved state and related files,
> > gzip
> > > > > > > it, and
> > > > > > > > > either post it on biocore or email it to me (if it is
> > > > > > > small enough)?
> > > > > > > > > I'd like to try loading it for myself so I can see
> > what's
> > > > > > > going on there.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > John Stone
> > > > > > > > > vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 05:48:19PM +0200, lucie
> > delemotte
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the quick answer!
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, vmd works fine when not loading a script (all
> > > > > > > windows open and I can
> > > > > > > > > > load things from the graphical menu).
> > > > > > > > > > Secondly, the script is supposed to load a pdb file
> > plus
> > > > > > > a namdbin file.
> > > > > > > > > > (With the other computer or in the debug mode, I
> > get the
> > > > > > > same text as
> > > > > > > > > above
> > > > > > > > > > plus :
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Info) Using plugin pdb for coordinates from file
> > > > > > > > > > kv1.5.26.0.pdb
> > > > > > > > > > Info) Finished with coordinate file
> > > > > > > > > > kv1.5.26.0.pdb.
> > > > > > > > > > 0
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Info) Using plugin namdbin for coordinates from
> > file ...
> > > > > > > > > > ..........
> > > > > > > > > > ........
> > > > > > > > > > ........
> > > > > > > > > > ........
> > > > > > > > > > [New Thread 0xa8914b90 (LWP
> > > > > > > > > > 25252)]
> > > > > > > > > > [Thread 0xa8914b90 (LWP 25252)
> > > > > > > > > > exited]
> > > > > > > > > > [New Thread 0xa8113b90 (LWP
> > > > > > > > > > 25253)]
> > > > > > > > > > [Thread 0xa8113b90 (LWP 25253)
> > > > > > > > > > exited]
> > > > > > > > > > [New Thread 0xa8113b90 (LWP
> > > > > > > > > > 25254)]
> > > > > > > > > > [Thread 0xa8113b90 (LWP 25254)
> > > > > > > > > > exited]
> > > > > > > > > > [New Thread 0xa8914b90 (LWP
> > > > > > > > > > 25255)]
> > > > > > > > > > [Thread 0xa8914b90 (LWP 25255)
> > > > > > > > > > exited]
> > > > > > > > > > [New Thread 0xa8914b90 (LWP
> > > > > > > > > > 25256)]
> > > > > > > > > > [New Thread 0xa8113b90 (LWP
> > > > > > > > > > 25257)]
> > > > > > > > > > [Thread 0xa8914b90 (LWP 25256)
> > > > > > > > > > exited]
> > > > > > > > > > [Thread 0xa8113b90 (LWP 25257)
> > > > > > > > > > exited]
> > > > > > > > > > {{1 0 0 0.654825} {0 1 0 -0.0264271} {0 0 1
> > -9.97098} {0
> > > > > > > 0 0 1}}
> > > > > > > > > {{-0.728706
> > > > > > > > > > -0.681299 -0.0693803 0} {-0.060971 -0.0363649
> > 0.997481
> > > > > > > 0} {-0.682102
> > > > > > > > > > 0.731099 -0.01504 0} {0 0 0 1}} {{0.0266042 0 0 0}
> > {0
> > > > > > > 0.0266042 0 0} {0 0
> > > > > > > > > > 0.0266042 0} {0 0 0 1}} {{1 0 0 0} {0 1 0 0} {0 0 1
> > 0}
> > > > > > > {0 0 0
> > > > > > > > > > 1}}
> > > > > > > > > > 0
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 0
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [New Thread 0xa8113b90 (LWP
> > > > > > > > > > 25258)]
> > > > > > > > > > [New Thread 0xa8914b90 (LWP
> > > > > > > > > > 25259)]
> > > > > > > > > > [Thread 0xa8914b90 (LWP 25259)
> > > > > > > > > > exited]
> > > > > > > > > > [Thread 0xa8113b90 (LWP 25258)
> > > > > > > > > > exited]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > vmd >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and the graphical window works fine.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Lucie
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, John Stone
> > > > > > > <johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > Does VMD run correctly for you by itself? The
> > main
> > > > > > > menu should
> > > > > > > > > > > appear if it was installed correctly and you
> > don't
> > > > > > > have an empty .vmdrc
> > > > > > > > > > > in your home directory. Once you've verified
> > that VMD
> > > > > > > itself is
> > > > > > > > > working
> > > > > > > > > > > fine, the next question I'd ask is whether you're
> > > > > > > loading any
> > > > > > > > > coordinates
> > > > > > > > > > > with that PSF file or just the PSF file. Unless
> > you
> > > > > > > load coordinates
> > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > well, nothing will be displayed in the VMD
> > graphics
> > > > > > > window. VMD needs
> > > > > > > > > > > the atomic coordinates to be able to draw
> > anything.
> > > > > > > The PSF file only
> > > > > > > > > > > contains the structure data (e.g.
> > > > > > > bonds/angles/dihedrals/etc). When
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > loaded it in VMD 1.8.6, did the saved state also
> > load
> > > > > > > a PDB file or
> > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > other coordinate file, or not?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > > > John Stone
> > > > > > > > > > > vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 05:31:26PM +0200, lucie
> > > > > > > delemotte wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have a vmd state script (state.vmd) that was
> > > > > > > working properly with
> > > > > > > > > vmd
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.8.6.
> > > > > > > > > > > > After upgrading from mandriva 2008.0 to
> > mandriva
> > > > > > > 2009.1 and changing
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > vmd
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.8.7, the script stopped loading (either in
> > command
> > > > > > > line with vmd -e
> > > > > > > > > > > > state.vmd or in the Tkconsole with the play
> > > > > > > command). The openGL
> > > > > > > > > window
> > > > > > > > > > > pops
> > > > > > > > > > > > up but nothing appears in it while the vmd main
> > > > > > > window doesn't open.
> > > > > > > > > In
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > console, the regular vmd stuff appears :
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) VMD for LINUX, version 1.8.7beta5 (June
> > 1,
> > > > > > > 2009)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/Research/vmd/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Email questions and bug reports to
> > > > > > > vmd_at_ks.uiuc.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Please include this reference in
> > published
> > > > > > > work using VMD:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Humphrey, W., Dalke, A. and Schulten,
> > K.,
> > > > > > > `VMD - Visual
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Molecular Dynamics', J. Molec.
> > Graphics
> > > > > > > 1996, 14.1, 33-38.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info)
> > > > > > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Multithreading available, 2 CPUs
> > detected.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Free system memory: 326MB (16%)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) No CUDA accelerator devices available.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) OpenGL renderer: Quadro FX 3450/4000
> > > > > > > SDI/PCI/SSE2
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Features: STENCIL MSAA(16) MDE CVA MTX
> > NPOT
> > > > > > > PP PS GLSL(OVF)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Full GLSL rendering mode is available.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Textures: 2-D (4096x4096), 3-D
> > > > > > > (512x512x512), Multitexture
> > > > > > > > > (4)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > psfplugin) Detected a Charmm31 PSF file
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Using plugin psf for structure file
> > > > > > > kv1.5.26.0.psf
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Analyzing structure ...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Atoms: 305464
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Bonds: 221738
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Angles: 172116 Dihedrals: 117638
> > > > > > > Impropers: 4748
> > > > > > > > > Cross-terms:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1552
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Bondtypes: 0 Angletypes: 0
> > Dihedraltypes:
> > > > > > > 0
> > > > > > > > > Impropertypes:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 0
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Residues:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 85614
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Waters:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 83392
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Segments:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 21
> > > > > > > > > > > > Info) Fragments: 84058 Protein: 4
> > Nucleic:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 0
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I tested versions beta.2, beta.3 and beta.5
> > > > > > > unsuccessfully. I also
> > > > > > > > > > > checked
> > > > > > > > > > > > that the script is still working on another
> > > > > > > computer. It also appears
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > vmd 1.8.6 is not working at all (vmd main
> > window not
> > > > > > > appearing) on
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > installation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The Nvidia drivers are well installed with the
> > > > > > > latest version :
> > > > > > > > > 180.51
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tcl/Tk version 8.6
> > > > > > > > > > > > gcc (GCC) 4.3.2
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I tried the debug mode to check what was wrong
> > and
> > > > > > > interstingly, my
> > > > > > > > > > > > state.vmd file loads properly (gdb version :
> > > > > > > 6.8-6mdv2009.1).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Lucie
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and
> > > > > > > Bioinformatics
> > > > > > > > > > > Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and
> > Technology
> > > > > > > > > > > University of Illinois, 405 N. Mathews Ave,
> > Urbana, IL
> > > > > > > 61801
> > > > > > > > > > > Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu Phone:
> > > > > > > 217-244-3349
> > > > > > > > > > > WWW:
> > > > > > > http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/>
> > <http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/%7Ejohns/>
> > > > > <http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/%
> > > > > > > 7Ejohns/><
> > > > > > > > > http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/%7Ejohns/>
> > > > > > > > > > > Fax: 217-244-6078
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and
> > > > > > > Bioinformatics
> > > > > > > > > Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
> > > > > > > > > University of Illinois, 405 N. Mathews Ave, Urbana,
> > IL
> > > > > > > 61801
> > > > > > > > > Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu Phone:
> > > > > > > 217-244-3349
> > > > > > > > > WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/>
> > <http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/%7Ejohns/>
> > > > > > > <http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/%7Ejohns/>
> > > > > > > > > Fax: 217-244-6078
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and
> > Bioinformatics
> > > > > > > Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
> > > > > > > University of Illinois, 405 N. Mathews Ave, Urbana, IL
> > 61801
> > > > > > > Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu Phone:
> > 217-244-3349
> > > > > > > WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/>
> > <http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/%7Ejohns/> Fax: 217-244-6078
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > =======================================================================
> > > > > > Axel Kohlmeyer akohlmey_at_cmm.chem.upenn.edu
> > http://www.cmm.upenn.edu
> > > > > > Center for Molecular Modeling -- University of Pennsylvania
> > > > > > Department of Chemistry, 231 S.34th Street, Philadelphia, PA
> > 19104-6323
> > > > > > tel: 1-215-898-1582, fax: 1-215-573-6233, office-tel:
> > 1-215-898-5425
> > > > > >
> > =======================================================================
> > > > > > If you make something idiot-proof, the universe creates a better
> > idiot.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and Bioinformatics
> > > > > Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
> > > > > University of Illinois, 405 N. Mathews Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
> > > > > Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu Phone: 217-244-3349
> > > > > WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/><
> > http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/%7Ejohns/>
> > > > > Fax: 217-244-6078
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > =======================================================================
> > Axel Kohlmeyer akohlmey_at_cmm.chem.upenn.edu http://www.cmm.upenn.edu
> > Center for Molecular Modeling -- University of Pennsylvania
> > Department of Chemistry, 231 S.34th Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6323
> > tel: 1-215-898-1582, fax: 1-215-573-6233, office-tel: 1-215-898-5425
> > =======================================================================
> > If you make something idiot-proof, the universe creates a better idiot.
> >
> > 

-- 
NIH Resource for Macromolecular Modeling and Bioinformatics
Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology
University of Illinois, 405 N. Mathews Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
Email: johns_at_ks.uiuc.edu                 Phone: 217-244-3349
  WWW: http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~johns/      Fax: 217-244-6078